I don't disagree with anything you're saying really. And I'm thrilled that open discussion of rape culture as a whole, as well as specific instances of sexual assault, are far more prevalent & prioritised now-a-days, but I think there's still definitely much room for improvement. I guess the only thing that really hangs me up, within the context of Spike & Buffy's relationship as a whole, is your 'only yes means yes' perspective means that *none* of their sexual encounters were consensual & that *both* of them were the perpetrators in various different scenes, & that just doesn't track for me. Whilst I view their overall relationship as less-than-healthy to the extreme, I certainly don't view the entirety of their sexual encounters as being non-consensual.
But, even having said that, I still don't disagree with you. 🤷♀️ I guess that just really further cements the overall complicated-ness/messed-up-ness of their relationship & consent as a whole.
The only thing I disagree with you about is you thinking my bringing up their previous sexual encounters was somehow meant to be apolegetic for the "Seeing Red" encounter, when that was not my intention at all.
"Bringing up Spike and Buffy's past sexual encounters is quite apologist-y. It doesn't matter how often they'd had sex, or how rough it was; even if they'd had sex 5 minutes earlier, she didn't want it THIS TIME. Therefore, it was an assault."
My point in bringing up their previous sexual encounters was that they all followed exactly the same pattern; the same pattern we see in "Seeing Red." It wasn't that she didn't want it THIS TIME, it was that she seemingly didn't want it ANY of the times, & yet all of their previous sexual encounters *were* consensual. I wasn't at all saying that just because they'd had sex before, rough or otherwise, that that should mean they should have sex this time & that it should have been consensual regardless. I was saying *none* of their previous encounters contained any kind of explicit consent (just the opposite, in fact), until they were actually in the act of having sex. Exactly how the scene in "Seeing Red" plays out, until it doesn't.
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Date: 13/09/2019 05:33 am (UTC)But, even having said that, I still don't disagree with you. 🤷♀️ I guess that just really further cements the overall complicated-ness/messed-up-ness of their relationship & consent as a whole.
The only thing I disagree with you about is you thinking my bringing up their previous sexual encounters was somehow meant to be apolegetic for the "Seeing Red" encounter, when that was not my intention at all.
"Bringing up Spike and Buffy's past sexual encounters is quite apologist-y. It doesn't matter how often they'd had sex, or how rough it was; even if they'd had sex 5 minutes earlier, she didn't want it THIS TIME. Therefore, it was an assault."
My point in bringing up their previous sexual encounters was that they all followed exactly the same pattern; the same pattern we see in "Seeing Red." It wasn't that she didn't want it THIS TIME, it was that she seemingly didn't want it ANY of the times, & yet all of their previous sexual encounters *were* consensual. I wasn't at all saying that just because they'd had sex before, rough or otherwise, that that should mean they should have sex this time & that it should have been consensual regardless. I was saying *none* of their previous encounters contained any kind of explicit consent (just the opposite, in fact), until they were actually in the act of having sex. Exactly how the scene in "Seeing Red" plays out, until it doesn't.